I noticed that a lot of people in the Boise area are very supportive of the two Boise lawyers who will be joining the team that will defend the Gitmo detainees against the eeeevil Bush Administration. After all, they aren’t like us and they’re just following their Religion of Peace.
I wonder if the same justice minded folks could gin up a little enthusiasm and support for defending those people in Texas that just had their homes raided and their kids taken away from them? Hmmm…? But probably not. After all, they’re not like us, and they’re just following their Religion of Perversion. Good thing the Sheriff had an armored personel carrier too. You never know when you’re gonna have another Waco on your hands.
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April 16th, 2008 at 11:39 am
It is very interesting that TODAY, the day before the children’s hearing, there seems to be a media blackout over the “sect”. Could it perhaps be related to the developing anger over how these mothers and their children were treated as is FINALLY being shown by pictures these women took in their so-called “shelter”? Since their seizure and the state of their living conditions has become better known, and since the mothers are speaking out, sympathy (hopefully) is increasing for them.
Some commentators have tried to paint their stories as “rehearsed” and to paint them as mind controlled, ignorant women. Yet when they are questioned by media and allowed to speak, they are intelligent and not ignorant of the world. They truly love their homes, children, and lifestyle, and they know that, as American citizens protected under our Constitution, they and their children have rights that were severely violated.
Hundreds of people rounded up and held against their will with only a vague allegation? Guns and no warrants and armored Humvees! Good grief, America!
April 17th, 2008 at 7:09 pm
I’m a little torn on this due to the allocations of abuse of underage women by the pedophile males of this polygamist sect and the abuse of privacy rights and outright invasion by a paramilitary police state on private property. I am just grateful that it didn’t turn into another Waco. Unless the allegations of sexual abuse of underage girls are true I feel someone in Texas has some explaining to do on their egregious abuse of civil rights not to mention the overwhelming use of armed force.
I wonder who I am beginning to fear more the ruthless and soulless criminals preying on society or the local authorities that continue to arm-up their police forces with the same weapons our Armed Forces uses to include armored vehicles. Anything beyond the requirements of a small hand picked SWAT team I see no need for a law enforcement agency to have the type of fire power they are amassing. Nothing scares me more then the “keystone cops” of Elmore County or Mountain Home having this type of firepower invading homes on the whim of the District Attorney’s Office.
April 17th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Eve and John, thanks for taking time to write. I appreciate it.
The polygamy charges are serious, no doubt about it, and even more so if they include underage girls. But those charges are separate from what the government did in this case. This eloquently speaks to the question of “how many rights and freedoms are you willing to give up to the government when it gives you a promise to protect you?” And what else does it say, if what could be found to be a phoney source, or an untraceable and unprovable “informant” can bring down the full armed might of the goverrnment? This is a huge case, with far reaching implications for all of us.
I noticed over at Huckleberries Online a few of the more “left-inclined” commenters were trying to go after the “Right wing wackos” for concentrating on bashing homosexuals but being pretty mum on the polygamist/child abuse part of this story. I don’t comment much over there because the level of discourse is often not very high. But if I had commented on this story, I might have offered back that many on the Left have been similarly quiet when it comes to the polygamist/child abuse aspects of Islam, preferring to go after the much juicier target of a tiny sect who have a marked separation from the culture, and profess to believe a distant imitation of Christianity. Just pointing out an obvious similarity… but it seems that what is ok for the Religion of Peace turns out to be not so much for the religion of a bunch of crazy folks holed up in a fortress in Texas.
I suppose if I REALLY wanted to stir it up over there, I could make a comment to point out that if it’s alright to use AR-15s and armored personnel carriers to protect underage girls from abuse, then perhaps we ought to send a few APCs into a couple of Planned Parenthood clinics, and REALLY do some protecting where it’s most needed… but I guess that would tag me as a hard-core Right wing wacko, wouldn’t it?
April 18th, 2008 at 9:00 am
This ranch just seens like it is a illegal place to have sex with Children. It is also a place where they take our money we have worked so hard for. As I understand that the welfare system does have people checking on these people who collect welfare. So who was doing the checking when the welfare department was cutting checks for so many at one address? These woman are all brain washed. I feel the children needs not to go back there to that ranch. And I feel our government needs to take all welfare off of anyone who lives there and force them to go out into the real world and get a job just like the rest of us.This crap has to stop! SO someone had better put a stop to it right now. Cut off the free money going into there. What the heck is wrong Texas? Someone must be sleeping. If this mess falls into the cracks of the courts there is no justice. I can not figure this out cops have the right to come onto my property to see what is going on if someone calls them out to check it out. Cops have the right to patrol our streets. SO why do they not have the right to patrol this ranch? They could be making moon shine or growing marijuana so is this right not to be able to get on this property? Well if this is all ok then I’m going to buy a ranch and move to Texas where I can do anything I want to on my ranch! SO move over Rapist I’m moving in next door to you all and I’m going to collect welfare for my animals asno one will check to see if they are people or not. I will name all my animals common names like Joe, Pete, Mike and what ever else I can think of. I will love to beat the system like these crazy people are doing. Well maybe they are not so crazy………. They are collecting a lot of money form all of use working people.SO again it is a good thing some opened that can of worms up at this crazy ranch. What gives anyone the right to take our hard earned money from us when sometimes we can not get help for our selfs when we do not have enough money to make it month to month and most of all the retired people who worked. No wonder people like this are taking all of our money. They need to all sit and pray to god that he will help them all out to find good jobs and to forgive all of them for stealing money form our Country. We have enough going on in our country with other countries stealing from our Country. It makes me wonder if they are paying taxes? Or are they writting taxes off playing a Church owns all this property? HUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM! This seems like these kids are all going to grow up using our welfare system. NO WONDER OUR COUNTRY IS RUNNING OUT OT OF MONEY! TEXAS HAS TO STEP IN HERE CUT OFF ALL THE MONEY SUPPLY RIGHT AWAY AND SEE HOW MANY WILL WANT TO STAY THERE. One is in jail for SEX with minors , RAPE and BIGAMY. What the heck does this tell you? You call this whole deal CULTURE? I call it stealing from the system and not their system OURS! No wonder someone placed a hoax call. Who had done this thumbs up to this person someone had to do it so Texas would open their eyes and go in there. I’m sure a lot of people feel this way.
April 22nd, 2008 at 6:47 am
So, what’s the LDS percentage in Boise? I’ve wondered how most LDS folks view the whole situation. It’s not something I’ve brought up at church, and since I live in SC most of the folks here are either converts or are descended from recent converts. In my case, the most recent convert in my ancestry was in something like 1842. When the LDS were expelled from the US, all of my living ancestors were in Nauvoo at the time and were forced out.
The reality was that they were feared politically and economically, but the claimed reason for getting rid of them was due to their polygamy. Yes, I had polygamous ancestors. All of my ancestors were driven from their homes into the wilderness during winter by the JBTs of their day, for the stated reason that they were members of a religion that allowed some polygamy to take place.
Before I say any more, let me state that I do not approve of what the FLDS people were doing. Period.
That said, it used to be fairly common for both boys and girls to get married as young as 14. Granted, this was typically at a time when average human lifespan was significantly less than it is today and children didn’t have nearly as long of a “childhood” as they do now. And, it was usually (but not always) an act of their own free will and choice. Nevertheless, it was considered normal and acceptable.
I think a lot of LDS folks, especially those that came from pioneer stock, would have at least some sympathy with a religious group being attacked because of their beliefs about marriage. No matter how much they disapproved of it themselves.
Not to mention the whole concept of the marriage age being raised in TX from 14 to 16 explicitly for the purpose of restricting the FLDS men from marrying young girls. If that’s not a prime example of “prohibiting the free exercise thereof” I don’t know what would be.
April 22nd, 2008 at 6:02 pm
I’m not sure what the LDS population percentage is in Boise, and the only figure I’ve heard for the state is 26 or 27%. Southeastern Idaho is a higher percentage, over 50% in some towns close to Utah, but overall I expect Boise to hit close to state average. There is a temple in Boise, and in some parts of town it seems there’s a church every section. And none of the LDS I’m friends with or work with have mentioned this particular incident.
I have found 2005 mentioned as the year Texas raised the marriage age, which is after the FLDS moved into the state. I believe you can still marry under that age with a judge’s consent. The part of this whole story that gets me is the hypocrisy of so many people (on both sides of the political spectrum) with respect to the rampant sexuality and permissiveness in the culture, the open promiscuity and multiple casual partner sex as condoned and promoted by the media and celebrity culture, and the complete non-subject this is when Islam is considered… or are we not supposed to notice that Islam also condones multiple wives, and child brides? I’m waiting fo the day some local Sheriff drives his APC up to a mosque and tries to pull the girls and children out of there… “for the children”, of course.
April 29th, 2008 at 3:07 pm
I have a particularly persistant spam-bot working on this post the last few days, so I’m closing comments on this post. If you would like to comment, please email me.